What if we got rid of CLASSES?!


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Oriette

2:32pm Jan 6 2018 (last edited on 7:43am Feb 17 2018)

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Posts: 443

WHAT IF WE GOT RID OF CLASSES (MERCHANT/RANCHER)?!

      Short Version:     
1] Rescreatu needs more of both ranchers and merchants that are active.
2] New users are discouraged quickly due to limited ways of making tu & competing with other users.
3] People sell both items and pets anyway - we just work around the system.
4] Staff are able to swap between classes more frequently, whereas regular users face more of a barrier.**
5] It would give us more stuff to do which makes the site more engaging, dynamic and interesting for everyone.
Why limit the user's options if there is no major benefit to the game?
6] Wouldn't you like to have both??


  What's the plan?    

1] Everyone would have both a merchant and a rancher shop.
2] Everyone would have 3 hatches.
3] No more merchant discount

** This is not to call out or be hostile to staff! I appreciate all you do
& I don't think you're taking advantage - it's just a part of the game currently. ♥
Please know I mean nothing malicious by discussing this topic!
 



   More Detailed Thoughts:  
(this section will be edited frequently)

WOULD RESCREATU LOSE ITS UNIQUENESS WITHOUT CLASSES?
Classes are an interesting idea in theory, but in practice they limit the game for users. Rescreatu's art, lore, community and hatching system are what make Rescreatu truly unique from other virtual pet sites! The class system is outdated and no longer needed to make the game stand out. If you could do more on Rescreatu, would it make the game less interesting to you?


HOW DOES GETTING RID OF CLASSES GIVE US MORE TO DO?
The short answer is that you get to run TWO shops instead of one! You'll be hatching 3 pets a day for your rancher shop AND you'll be checking your merchant stock EVERYDAY! Ranchers - think of all those items you have laying around that you could be selling instead! Merchants - wouldn't you like to hatch more pets?

OK THAT SOUNDS NICE FROM A USER'S PERSPECTIVE, BUT WON'T IT BREAK THE GAME?
Well let's consider another virtual pet site that doesn't use a class system.
Take for instance Flight Rising - a very successful VPS with thousands of users online at a time. There are really no parts of the site players are barred access to - you can play the game however you want and take advantage of any and all methods of making gold. Everyone has a fair chance to compete in battle, breeding, selling goods and all other aspects of the game. You could spend 24 hours straight on the game and still have stuff to do. Imagine now if there was a "battle" class on Flight Rising, and they were the only ones allowed to participate in battle/training, but that was also the only part of the game they could play - they weren't allowed to breed dragons, only the "breeding" class could do that. This is similar to what what Rescreatu does.
 The ideal game is one that users can (and want to) spend the most time and effort on. From a financial standpoint, users that invest more time are also more likely to invest money - which keeps the site alive for everyone to enjoy! So why not give us more to do?


WHAT IF WE ADDED MORE CLASSES INSTEAD?
More classes sounds like an interesting idea, but again in practice it only serves to make the game smaller for users. If we create more classes we make the game more narrow and limit the player's options in the game even more. Imagine if you had to choose between an "Egg Finder" or "Clothing Seller" class. Would the game be better or worse for you?


WHAT IF WE HAD PLANET PERKS INSTEAD?
 I think this is a GREAT idea that would add character to the game! I would suggest that Planet Perks (ie - perks for users depending on which planet they live on) are simple and do not limit the game for anyone. The Fishing Hole on Relcore is a great example of something that is fun and unique for Relcore citizens, but doesn't unbalance the game or take anything significant away from other users. Zen suggested discounts at your planet's shops and I think that's brilliant! It would compensate for the absence of the merchant's discount while keeping things balanced between users. (The black market should probably be excluded from this however). This is already an established feature of the game, so it would only mean adding to a function that needs new content anyway!
 
Planet Perk Ideas:
1] Exclusive eggs (like the Paor use to be)
2] Exclusive shops (like FRE use to be)
3] Exclusive dailies (like fishing hole)
4] Exclusive games
Of course these perks should be balanced so there's an even amount for each planet!

HOW WOULD THIS HELP TO BALANCE THE GAME?
+ NEW VS OLD USERS +
It takes a good amount of time to get established on Rescreatu. Hatching pets is a pretty slow method of making tu, and being a merchant isn't very appealing to new users that are drawn to the game by the idea of hatching pets - I don't blame them, it's what I love too! However, if they had the option of doing both, the game would feel significantly more full and interesting for new users and help them get established. This would give new users more options without giving them an unreasonable advantage.

+ STAFF VS REGULAR USERS +
I know this is a sensitive topic, so please hear me out. There is a perceived wealth gap between staff and regular users currently (and there has been for many years). This is not the fault of staff, especially not the current team. It's simply the way the game is designed and I personally believe staff deserve benefits for all the work they put into Rescreatu. But it certainly helps user morale if things are kept as balanced as possible, so users don't get discouraged/disgruntled. One of the slight advantages staff currently have is a steady income of CP that makes class tokens a bit more accessible and therefor makes it more affordable to run both a rancher and a merchant shop (they don't have to sacrifice tu if they don't want to in order to swap classes). Users would have to dip into their shop profits to swap.
+
Please know I mean nothing malicious by discussing this. I think the current bunch of staff are exceptionally proactive, open minded, reasonable and generally awesome! I have been truly impressed since returning to the game to see how understanding and open to change staff are nowadays. Things like the Q&A threads give me so much hope for the future of Res! I think the current staff have a unique opportunity to make major changes to Res that could change the game for the better, and I have already seen some major improvements! ♥

SO HOW EXACTLY WOULD THIS WORK?
This outline is generally what we have so far, but please voice your concerns/thoughts!

1] Everyone would have both a merchant and a rancher shop.
2] Everyone would have 3 hatches.
3] No more merchant discount

This sounds like a HUGE change, but it really isn't. The game wouldn't need to be significantly recoded.
All features mentioned in this post are things that are already coded and exist.
It's just a matter of rearranging things. I would imagine it would be something like - swap everyone to the Rancher class and give everyone access to their merchant shops. Correct me if I'm wrong!


WOULD THE VALUE OF PETS DECREASE WITH MORE HATCHES?!
Kir's Quest is designed to balance this issue. It was created because the color of pets had become almost irrelevant. It hardly influenced a pets value at all before Kir. When Kir was created, this problem rapidly fixed itself. It is designed to keep pace with the game (mostly) regardless of the number of players - it's really a very creative solution!
More people hatching pets = more pets on the market
More pets on the market = Kir's quest is viable for more players
More people doing Kir = more pets removed from the system - pet value maintained!
As it stands, Kir's quest has become so expensive to play that it is almost obscenely more affordable to just buy Kir's items from other users than it is to do it yourself - especially for new users that have to work their way up through the tiers. To quote another user who posted off-site about the issue (slightly edited):

"If you’re a newbie with a dream of earning a Cyancu Nest, you need to give Kir 180 creatu total. 180 (creatu) x 7,800,000 (price per bean) = 1,404,000,000tu... [However] you will not just be spending 7.8M per creatu."
[ you'll be looking at spending anywhere from 0-60mil on 1 pet if you're not using beans ]
"Cyancu eggs are selling for 500M each/1.5B for a nest, pretty close to that mythical 1,404,000,000 number. Just buy the egg."

BUT KIR'S QUEST SHOULD BE HARD! KIR PETS HAVE VALUE!
Absolutely. Kir was designed to be expandable so that if Kir's prizes started to diminish in value or flood the market, new tiers and new prizes could be added to keep the game balanced and to give players something new to strive for! Prizes can also be retired from the quest if the market becomes over-saturated with something. Currently there is only a lack of Kir items/eggs on the market.
It would be nice to see pets like the RSTUs and Ivik on site again!

Regardless of this situation however, the initial increase of pets on the site would be minimal. Merchants currently get one hatch anyway - so without classes they're only getting two more. Look at the albino promo going on - tons of merchants have swapped to ranchers, and the change to the pet market has been minimal so far. We're still only talking about active users that get on and hatch every day. But even if we had 200 new users all join as ranchers tomorrow, the game and Kir would not break, I swear! It would be a GOOD thing! We want more users that potentially spend time and MONEY on Res to keep it going! :)

WE NEED THE DISCOUNT IN NPC SHOPS TO MAKE A PROFIT?
There's a few answers to this one!
1] Discount cards still exist and could be made available again (difficult to obtain preferably) for people who want to specialize in being a merchant. People will naturally choose things to focus on, so if merchant is your jam, a discount card could be a good goal to strive for!
2] We currently see items in user shops marked up significantly beyond their original default price. How many times have you bought a 2k item for 200k because screw it, you're not gonna wait for it to stock in shops and 200k is still basically pennies anyway?? That mark up is way more than the discount merchants get anyway - they don't rely on the discount whatsoever to make a profit. I doubt things will change much without classes, but if anything we might see items priced more accurately/fairly.
3] Again - Zen's idea of planet shop discounts could give us that nice little discount on our home planet so we don't feel like we're missing out! So, if you're a relcore citizen you would get a discount at all the relcore shops, etc. [This would need some balancing/figuring out, as some planets don't have many shops].


WOULD EVENTS BE NEGATIVELY IMPACTED?
I can't foresee this change negatively impacting events. If anything, I think it makes the playing field more even.
+ PET TURN-IN EVENTS +
If everyone has 3 hatches we all have equal chances of hatching high-colored pets for leaderboards. Merchants will no longer have to feel left out in this aspect of the game, which means more people getting involved in events - which is a GOOD thing for the site! The more involved people feel in the game, the less likely they are to stop playing!
+ ITEM TURN-IN EVENTS +
Merchants and ranchers both choose to participate or not in these events anyway. There are people in either class who currently sell items or turn them in. I don't see this negatively effecting these events. At most, NPC shops may need their stocks increased or stock rate changed - an easy fix!
Also, if I had the option to run a merchant shop, I would consider stocking up on event items throughout the year to sell. However, as a rancher, it's currently not worth the hassle and I wouldn't sacrifice my hatches. But if I could have BOTH I would DO BOTH - and spend more time playing the game!


WHAT OTHER IMPACT WOULD THIS HAVE ON THE ECONOMY?
This is a subject I would appreciate more thoughts on!
Personally, I don't think it would have a negative impact on the economy. It would give everyone an additional source of income - but it would also mean people exchanging tu more frequently, spending tu in NPC shops (tu sink!) more often and in general a more robust economy as far I as can imagine. I could be wrong on this point and I welcome any input on this!




Please share any thoughts you have! ♥

PS - I realize this is a far-in-the-future, long-term, maybe-pipe-dream thing (possibly/probably something
 that wouldn't be implemented until V4 if at all) but that's okay. 8) I wanted to get it out there.






Flygon

2:39pm Jan 6 2018

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Posts: 735
I agree with this concept. I find myself buying tokens just to find out what has sold, only to be disappointed. I have found less Tu in the till that the money spent on the token.





Knightly Lord of Paor.
33 unique bois
Halloween

3:17pm Jan 6 2018 (last edited on 3:17pm Jan 6 2018)

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Posts: 2,979
I rather would just have different classes added,then to have both.
Like,
Egg marketer.
Item seller.
Clothing stocker.
Cs seller.
Or,put in a new improved class..
A class that can trade.
Other then for tu.
Like items for pets,or pets for pets,
Items for items.
Like secrete Santa,but put it in a shop base.
As long as you have that item or pet
You can trade fair and square!

More options is better,then making both
Classes for one person.

Though,I would like the ability to SEE and check
My tu,in the shop on left behind.



In 38 colors, and a thousand black
Gondras later... I rise over my
Army as the Gondra Queen!
\r\n\r\n\r\n
Kalati

4:10pm Jan 6 2018

Normal User


Posts: 344
(Hey if anything doesn't make sense feel free to ask me to elaborate. I'm bad at putting thoughts into word >.<)


I'll agree with certain points here for solely your second point ("New users are getting discouraged quickly due to limited ways of making tu & competing with other users". I love new users and I wish they'd stick around.)

Res wasn't as small as it is now back when I started, and as such it wasn't as easy to "fix" prices for certain things they way it's being done now. Prices were more dynamic. And because of this is why I feel newer users have a hard time selling things.

I like that your single class works to provide a more dynamic market, what with more players being able to sell things, but how this would play out if we happened to get more than the ~400 players each day concerns me. It'd be wonderful for profits now but maybe with more users it'd tip the other way and make things unprofitable again with over saturation.


Perhaps the creation of a new class the combines both classes could be the default and Rancher and Merchant could be something attainable? I think the perks then would be worth it. 
I'd hate to see the Merchant's discount or the Ranchers hatches/chances go away.





(=ↀωↀ=)✧

Zen

4:46am Jan 7 2018 (last edited on 6:55am Jan 7 2018)

Artist


Posts: 3,203
Yay discussions!!


Getting rid of classes is something that’s been brought up before and at the time I was strongly against it. 
Like you said classes are pretty unique to Rescreatu (but  there are a few places that have something similar) which is a huge reason why I wanted to keep them,
I would of much rather seen a revamp of the current classes and have more classes added. 

There’s a very old thread here 


Which asks for class ideas. 

When I say old I actually mean dusty and abandoned. 
I'm not sure why all Class discussions fizzled out but I imagine it was just too hard to find a balance that wouldn't ruin the economy even more and be fair in comparison to the other Classes. 


Anyways, after a lot of thinking I’m all for getting rid of classes but only if they’re replaced with “planet perks”.

And by that I don’t mean ‘only people on Scria can have a merchant shop’ or ‘only people on Relcore can have a rancher shop’ etc 
I’m talking about:
 Special hatch colours dedicated to the users home planet, 
Special areas (like the fishing hole) for each planet that only the residents can get to, 
Special planet shops,
Etc etc

I would love to see some planet perks where a user from a different planet can send their pet to another user for that user to do something planet specific with (hope that made sense xD) 
Just as a way to encourage trade, discussions and make the beautifully rich Res-lore come to life. 
 
So if this became a thing what do we do with the class benefits? 
Personally, I would say all users can have a merchant and rancher, three hatches, no discount in NPC shops (maybe each planet can get a discount in a certain NPC shop though?)  

But we will need more incentive to release pets from the hatchery or an option to delete them after hatching?





ZiggyStardust

8:38am Jan 7 2018 (last edited on 8:39am Jan 7 2018)

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Posts: 209
Tbh I think the answer would be to add new classes and have rancher/merchant classes be something you can have unlimited swaps with, and res could release a whole line of tokens for special classes you could have on top of being rancher/merchant



Lycan

3:50pm Jan 7 2018

Content Manager


Posts: 3,132

I think ditching them all together is a good idea. Right now the tokens are nothing more than a CP sink for staff and line the pockets with our tu.

(not anything bad to staff but like.. you guys understand, I'm sure!)

Every other pet site gets along just fine with people having a pet shop and an item shop, so there's no reason Res should have them separate still. I think it would provide stimulation to the layman's economy as well!
Support!





Glitchy

5:23pm Jan 7 2018

Normal User


Posts: 30
This is an idea I can get behind. Thank you for the suggestion, Ray!

I absolutely agree and do feel like the idea of classes - while unique, is outdated and definitely needs to be revisited. There is a very large and discouraging gap between an established user on Rescreatu and someone starting out. 

Let's be honest - how hard would it be to start if we wernt offered a helping hand? It's time to try and close the gap - and I think this is a great place to start.



Oriette

6:42pm Jan 7 2018

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Posts: 443
Thanks for sharing all your thoughts so far guys! I'm loving it. I just wanted to wait to get a few posts before I responded.

So my thoughts regarding more/new classes -

Personally, my major concern with that is that there's already a rather limited amount of stuff to do on Res. Players need more stuff to do in general - like running two shops instead of one.

By getting rid of the classes, you now have more things you can do on the site - effectively increasing the time and energy you currently spend on the site, which makes players more active, engaged and invested in the game.  If we create classes that are even more specialized (ie 'egg seller' or etc) we're just limiting what players can do further and making the game smaller and less complex for them.

Users contribute to the content of the site just by using it - buying and selling items, running shops, participating in events - and the more they have to do, the more they add, the more alive the site will be.

Take for instance Flight Rising - a very successful VPS with thousands of users online at a time. There are really no parts of the site players are barred access to - you can play the game however you want and take advantage of any and all methods of making gold. There are so many elements to the game that you could literally spend 24 hours straight on the website and still have stuff to do, since there's no part of the game you aren't allowed to participate in. Players naturally choose parts of the game they prefer to specialize in anyway (breeding, battling, selling items, crafting, etc). Imagine now if there was a "battle" class on Flight Rising, and they were the only ones allowed to participate in battle/training, but that was also the only part of the game they could play - they weren't allowed to breed dragons, only the "breeding" class could do that. This is essentially what Rescreatu does.

And while I think it was a good, charming idea that made Rescreatu interesting in the beginning, I think it's become a fault that holds it back from having a more active user base.





Halloween

9:17pm Jan 7 2018

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Posts: 2,979
Without classes..events will die out.
Shops can not keep up with stock.



In 38 colors, and a thousand black
Gondras later... I rise over my
Army as the Gondra Queen!
\r\n\r\n\r\n
Zen

4:22am Jan 8 2018

Artist


Posts: 3,203
Why do you think that, Miss? 



Oriette

5:58pm Jan 8 2018 (last edited on 11:02pm Jan 8 2018)

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Posts: 443
Sorry I didn't cover everyone's ideas, I was rushing a bit and overly focused on one point lol.

Also I'm going to try to keep this as short as possible so if I didn't mention you, I agreed and/or had nothing to add ♥♥ Thanks for sharing your thoughts!!

-----

Zen:
"So if this became a thing what do we do with the class benefits? 
Personally, I would say all users can have a merchant and rancher, three hatches,
no discount in NPC shop (maybe each planet can get a discount in a
certain NPC shop though?)"


I completely agree with that! They could make 5 or 10% discount cards available again (rare/difficult to obtain) for people who want to specialize in being a merchant still.

I also SUPER support planet perks - though I would say making only Scria residents merchants and Relcore residents ranchers/etc is just a different way of reinstating classes. I think perks should be small and not game limiting - like the fishing hole that's exclusive to Relcore. It adds character without really taking away anything significant from other users. A discount in your planet's shops is also a SUPERB idea imo.

There use to be planet exclusive eggs (support!) and shops were discussed at one point as well, which makes for a more dynamic market without taking something significant away from users.

"But we will need more incentive to release pets from the hatchery or an option to delete them after hatching?"
I think Kir eats up plenty of pets otherwise, and I think if more people were hatching, more people would participate in Kir. There aren't enough pets being hatched to make Kir worthwhile for most users anyway. At this point it is significantly (almost obscenely) cheaper to buy Kir items/eggs from users who bother with the quest than it is to do the quest yourself, so that needs to be balanced out better anyway.
So basically, more hatching = more Kir players. Kir was designed to control this problem and I think it will only function better with more people hatching (we might actually see RSTUs and Iviks on the site again). But initially this will only add 2 more hatches per active player anyway (we're not looking at an influx of actual new users) - roughly the amount of hatches we're currently seeing, since most merchants swapped to rancher for the albino promo.

--------

Kalati:
"Res wasn't as small as it is now back when I started, and as such it
wasn't as easy to "fix" prices for certain things they way it's being
done now. Prices were more dynamic. And because of this is why I feel
newer users have a hard time selling things."

I'm not sure which prices you're referring to being fixed, but overall I agree. I think if more people are contributing/competing in both the pet and item market things would balance out better.

"but how this would play out if we happened to get more than the ~400
players each day concerns me. It'd be wonderful for profits now but
maybe with more users it'd tip the other way and make things
unprofitable again with over saturation."

I think this is something that naturally fixes itself, but I might be misunderstanding. If people see there's no profit in buying a certain item to sell, they won't do it. So, if the market is over saturated with Blue Socks, people aren't going to buy more Blue Stocks to stock in their shop because there's no profit margin for them. If you're talking about pets, I think Kir consumes them very effectively and it is designed in such a way that even if the site grows, the quest keeps pace. If it stops keeping pace, it would be better to adjust the prizes or add new ones (which was the plan when Kir was created) than to leave the broken class system in place (which I would argue is a bigger flaw than needing to adjust Kir). 

I hope this covers some of the unique points I missed in my other post. ♥

----------

Miss:
"Without classes..events will die out.
Shops can not keep up with stock."
Could you elaborate on this? I'm not really sure what you mean..
But I will say NPC shops can have their stocks increased, or even the stock rate changed. The class system is a major element of the game that (imo) is broken and worth fixing, and if NPC shops had to be slightly adjusted to work better it wouldn't be a big deal.






Halloween

11:06pm Jan 8 2018 (last edited on 11:06pm Jan 8 2018)

Normal User


Posts: 2,979
Well,lets say..a rosa or other characters ask for items,
For events and prizes.

300+ Resians rush all at once to grab at them.

5% can only type so fast to buy shop stocked items.

The rest relies on user shops to gather enough for everyone
At a fair chance to have fun at an event.

If user shops stop selling items and compete..
Then things will go up in price or will never stock.
Merchant you get so much off buying..so selling
Cheaper ain't hurting.
Hatching 3 pets a night..can get more variety and colors.
So,it helps keep up.

I'm loosing myself here.
But 9f you stop tokens and perks,
Things will be effected.





In 38 colors, and a thousand black
Gondras later... I rise over my
Army as the Gondra Queen!
\r\n\r\n\r\n
Lycan

1:27am Jan 9 2018

Content Manager


Posts: 3,132
Miss, I don't mean to butt in but I think you're missing a huge part - merchants depend on the NPC stock too. If those 5% get the item from NPCs, then the merchants can't stock them anyway. That's why Oriette was suggesting that the stock amounts and types increase, to counteract this. It has no bearing on who's what class anyway.



Halloween

2:50am Jan 9 2018

Normal User


Posts: 2,979
I ment over time.
Anyways..
I just think its better to have other classes.
Or better the ones we got.
Then to just get rid of somthing that works
Good enough.

I'd be dead bored if classes whent 'poof'

Maybe,its the responsibility in owning a class,
You know? Setting it up.
Pricing,making shire what's fair,and nicely,
Decorated.

I also don't like the thought of my
3 hatches taken away cause..of
This.
Its the choose I made..its like a reward,
For acting into my profession of being a rancher.

I Donno this just makes me worry.



In 38 colors, and a thousand black
Gondras later... I rise over my
Army as the Gondra Queen!
\r\n\r\n\r\n
Oriette

12:52pm Jan 9 2018

Normal User


Posts: 443
Miss - You wouldn't be losing anything, only gaining! ^^
If we get rid of classes you will be both a merchant AND a rancher. You will have two shops to run - so there will only be more for you to do, not less. Of course you would still have the choice to only run a rancher shop, if you prefer. :)

Basically:
1] Everyone gets 3 hatches
2] Merchant discount is gone
3] Everyone gets a merchant and a rancher shop

Read my first post for reasons why this would be a benefit to everyone and would help balance the game better between new users, old users and staff by giving everyone more options for earning tu and creating a more even playing field. I'll try to edit it to make this more clear, if I can.

Also, events should be impacted very little by this change, if at all.





Oriette

2:24pm Jan 9 2018

Normal User


Posts: 443
+ FIRST POST UPDATED +

I will keep the first post updated to outline progress we make on this concept!
♥ Thanks for contributing to the conversation you guys! ♥

I'm sorry it's so long but there's a TLDR bit at the top lol.






Pegasus

2:42pm Jan 9 2018

Support


Posts: 1,586
I doubt staff are using CP on class changes simply because it makes a lot more sense to buy them with tu/credits.

But I agree that they should be removed for the points mentioned on the first post plus the planet exclusive stuff and the Kirs Quest which is doing a whole lot to get pets out of the system.

It will make both items and pets more available to users so there would be a lot more spending of money which can be a good thing. 

All in all I like the ideas and the things to replace classes.





Lycan

3:34pm Jan 9 2018

Content Manager


Posts: 3,132
If they're not buying the class changes with CP, who is? :0 Just genuinely curious here, I've only ever bought from Fea's shop.



Pegasus

4:09pm Jan 9 2018

Support


Posts: 1,586
You can buy it with only 75 credits.



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