So I figured that not everyone's good at everything (if I'm incorrect, I must be really bad xD). So I decided that it would be useful if we could all help each other (in this case, with art because this is the art thread xD). The purpose of this thread is for people to tell what they're bad at and what they're having problems with and hopefully someone else could help with that. So really, this is all just an excersize to better improve our skills in art and to help each other.

We could like give each other verbal or pictoral advice or maybe even links to useful tutorials. xD

So I'll start first:

I am bad at drawing hind legs of quadrupedal mammals, boobs, noses and eyes (I never draw pupils). I also don't get colour theory. I get the ideas, but how can they be applied?

There is this awesome but long tutorial on drawing humans :3 it's split into parts so you can look at the part for the face mostly. Even though it says manga to realistic, i think you should look at it anyway for help XD

http://bittersweetdisease.deviantart.com/art/MANGA-to-REALISTIC-PART-ONE-215317699

There's part one, and the other links are in the deion. I think 1, 2, and 3 will help you the most with nose/eyes. :3

Oh, I've seen that tutorial. It's favourited on my dA. :P

I think my biggest problem is just drawing consistently. Not saying that I can draw things well now (LOL), but I'd probably start improving once I get past my lazy-block. Any tips for that? D: 

Super, I've seen that one actually. I didn't really find it useful unfortuneately mainly because I can draw eyes in realism but I can't translate that into a cartoon (I don't draw manga) xD

Det, I don't really care if I'm consistant or not actually. However, consistancy would be useful because I do animations. What I find useful is to have a fixed process of working, for example, when I paint I block in (simultaneously get the colour key sorted out), do a gradient, merge all layers, get the basic shading done and then do the details. When drwaing, it's good to have a set of geometric shapes that you use to rough out the body and get the anatomy correct. Eventually, with practice you can ditch those guidelines and draw any firgure you'd like freehand.

ipod, I can't really help you with 'chibi eyes' because I don't draw manga. However, if I were you, I'd give up. Attempting to mimic someone else's style isn't really awesome for developing yourself as an artist. You need to get your core skills sorted out first and then you can decide which direction you want to go in. Anyways, when you're skilled enough you can simply mimic 'chibi eyes' fairly easily whenever you want. 

So the best thing to do is not go 'I want to draw like this' because honestly, that may not exemplify you as an artist. You can take inspiration from what you like and sort of make it part of your style but I don't think it's awesome to blantantly copy someone else's style of drawing and call it your own. 

Thanks Ping. Great advice anyways, though I meant as in getting my lazy butt to draw, regardless of what comes out. I'm pretty sure I've scared myself off of drawing purely because I don't appreciate what I draw and the progress I've made since I've started talking art more seriously. Call me stupid but I compare my work to dA greats and them I get all upset because my work isn't nearly as good. xD

But this year should be better. ;c I finally got a notebook that isn't bigger than myself so I can actually like, take it places. lol

<3 

I think the best way to improve is to learn from your mistakes and don't let your past failures scare you from trying again (yeah, like me, i've made so many souffles in my life, all of them have fallen and yet I still make souffles xD). It's better to not let the past beat you up.

I actually really appreciated my mum trash talking my art when I was 12 because that gave me the drive to take art more seriously and not let my ego get to my brain. I know most 12 year olds would have given up if they heard what my mum told me; but that what I suppose unsupportive parents are helpful for. They really let you know what your passions are (so like, if it was really just a fling in interest, I would have given up).

My mum also taught me not to compare myself to other people. She's all like 'those are other people, and you are you'. Okay, when she says that, she doesn't mean that for art (It's more like when I say 'the other people got bad in this test' and she'll say 'I don't care about other people, you got bad in the test'), but it can also be put in the context of art. You obviously don't want to copy people's style, you just want to take inspiration xD

Also, what I suggest you do if you want to become a greater artist is to not narrow down your influences to people on dA and the internet. I find studying a little art history and taking a look at canonized artists like Alphonse Mucha or Da Vinci very useful. Okay, that would actually put you down even more because they're all like 'askdhsakhdkjashdiuomgsobootiful', but narrowmindedness has always been an artist's enemy. Looking into modern artists like Damien Hirst (sorry guys, I know he's unethical, but I actually love the visual qualities he brings) and Yoshi.taka Amano (my hero. He's like so awesome) can give you ideas and inspirations that you will never see in dA.

This is why I don't go to my parents for advice on anything. It's pretty much set in stone that if I asked my mom how I look, if she likes what I drew or wrote or anything she'll say it's beautiful. Even the same for tests. I got a 2 on a test (below average) and my mom said she was proud I tried. xD So, like, brb taking all your advice into account. o-o

And despite the amount of tutorials I have favourited on dA I don't use any of them. I prefer using my drawing books because I like actually being able to touch the images (whatever that means). So hopefully my views aren't too narrow. D:

(Da Vinci is asfasgaldgakdlomgsobootiful xD I love his art) 

<3 

Personally, I have problems planning things out. As a result I also have problems with composition. Ugh, I've been trying to understand it, and I think I vaguely do.. but like with you and color theory, I just can't figure out how to apply it. I just figure it must be that I'm so impatient and don't wanna plan things out.

I'm really hoping it might be touched on at some point in all these art classes I'm taking this year. Learning stuff in class helps me remember way better than if I just look it up myself. Or, heck, maybe I could just ask my teacher.. even if she still terrifies me a little. xD

I also have a bit of a problem with drawing men. Ironic, considering just a few years ago they were just about all I'd draw. But of course.. I didn't care about anatomy then.

I s'pose I'll just keep on with the gesture sketches 'til I get more used to 'em.

Now. Attempts at helping you guys. xD

For the hind legs thing, I've actually found that a big cause of mistakes is how long the second portion of the leg is - the part between thigh and foot. It's actually a lot longer than we always seem to think. I didn't even realise it until I recently got a commission for a wolf-type thing and went to study images of wolves.

The knees end almost immediately below the body (usually parallel to the elbows) in many animals, so even though the 'thigh' part is technically longest, the 'shin' part takes up a lot of what we can actually see. Of course stylisation tends to make animals look thinner, so more of the knee will be visible, and various animals have different proportions. But it's important to remember that, other than for certain squat animals like komodos, knees and ankles aren't right next to each other like we tend to imagine them.

There's also the effect some animals' rounded sides have on their legs - the dip between the legs and the body ends up curved around its belly in a certain way. This would probably be ridiculous to try and describe in words, so. I'll just let the pictures talk. xD Redlines have been placed to emphasise both the proportion of the leg sections and, in the ones where it applies/is visible, the curve where leg meets side.

The whole curve thing is really important on horses, but it helps with the believability of other animals who have it too. For instance, it's pretty implied on the Zaphao.

Also, I find it extremely helpful to apply knowledge of human legs to animal legs (as with lots of other things too), especially on reptiles and amphibians.

... 'Kay I've gotta go now. I'll just.. leave this ridiculous long post here. xD

Yosh, about composition. I would look at other artists and how they compose their work. Don't just go 'hey, that's pretty.' Notice how each component is positioned and how they relate to other objects.

For example, here is Paolo Uccello's Saint George and the Dragon:

 This is one of my favourite non-contemporary art pieces. You can see that Uccello angles Saint George and draws him in a three quarter angle. He is connected to the dragon by the lance, and the dragon is in a more frontal view whilst the princess is in profile. This is to create the impression of 3D space. Also, the background is divided up in 2: the cave and the sky. One half is less colourful and the other is more colourful and has pretty patterns (in the clouds). So yeah, you can take ideas from paintings like this and sort of do something similar.

I personally have an Amano book on my desk at all times to get inspiration for pieces. I also find sketching out thumbnails useful. Just make little versions (like 2 inches big?) of what you'd like to make and do a few variations of it (don't spend too much time, I take about half a minute for each thumbnail). When you're happy with one of them, just redraw the whole thing bigger and get all of the details in. Sometimes this doesn't work though, ususally when I do commissions I end up with having at least 3 large, detailed but discontinued sketches. It's a bit frustrating, but if I don't like it, there's no point in continueing eh?

I never really thought there was much theory in composing pieces. I'm just all like *idea in head* draw. My motto is 'NO COMPROMISE D<' so really, I don't stop until I get what I want, and if I don't know how to get it I'll learn how to.

With drawing men, I just read a load of superhero comics and learnt from there. What I like about some comics is the fact that the change the artist with every few issues (like Batman and Robin) so it's interesting to see how different artists portray the same characters. 

With the hind legs thing, I did do a lot of studies of real life animals. I have a book of animal anatomy and even if I copy directly from the books, I still feel they look weird. Okay, even in photos I think they look anatomically incorrect. I think it's because I relate the femur and the tibia in humans to be of the same length and in animals it's obviously not. So I think I need to try and get my brain to work with animal anatomy properly oAo

Btw, I have a whole collection of photos with the leg bones drawn on them as well Yosh. Great minds think alike eh? xD

... Well then. xD I feel a little silly for throwing all that around then.

Ah well. It was kinda fun and helpful even just for me. Best thing about talking on these kinds of things is that you almost don't realise some of 'em consciously until you DO talk about 'em. Or at least, that's how it seems to work for me.

Actually. There was one project we did in drawing class last year that helped quite a bit with this sort of thing. Its point may have been kind of the opposite, where they wanted to show us the similarities rather than the differences, but. xD It seems like it could go either way.

Basically it was like. A set of four squares/rectangles/whatever. In the top left we did a normal self-portrait, and in the bottom right was an animal. And then the other two images would be inbetweens.

No idea how much it'd help, but I figure it might be worth suggesting. O:

...

'Kay so. Trying to understand this more. xD Basically with the background it's like the rule of thirds. Except with halves. Right?

But.. why is the princess in profile omg. She just kind of seems out of place, looking so simple and flat and nonchalant among everything else.

I just. I guess I'm trying to take on too much at a time. Like those people that complain about how huge a task it is to learn anatomy when they first start into it. I'm falling into that compare/loseconfidence cycle, but the only way to learn it seems to be to look at other people's stuff in the first place. o_o

I can't even seem to do thumbnails and be satisfied with any of 'em FFFFFF. They're just. Stupid messes that have no unity or direction or focal point.

Okay Yosh, what I say is that if you were never satisfied with any of your thumbnails, you shouldn't be drawing them in the first place. If you don't like any of your thumbails at all, that means that you had no ideas in the first place or you had one but you never thought about the execution. What you need to do is sit down and think, that's all. I only ever take on large projects if I have a vision. If you don't have a vision and your ideas are not thought out properly, that's when you fall flat at every turn. So in my opinion, a better approach would be 'I have an idea, let's draw/paint/whatever' rather than 'I want to draw/create something, but I need some ideas'.

Oh yeah, don't diss Uccello man, the princess looks great D<. Uccello's goal was never to make something that looked realistic or anything. He was more interested in creating something that was subtlely fantastical. He likes using patterns and stuff on objects that realistically cannot form patterns (like the clouds and the grass). Anyways, he had to put the princess there because it was part of the story so he was prolly all like 'man, I have to put the princess in' and so she's alll like 'not mah business derp derp' xD

But anyways, she like tied up the dragon with her belt for goodness sake. Like, seriously? Why does she need George to save her if she can wrestle a dragon and freakin' put a leash on it?! D<

I'm not sure if you've read about my sad souffle story (it's okay if they fall. They taste like weird cheesecake anyway oAo). But that's my reply for that 'compare/loseconfidence' cycle. To summarise, it's generally 'SCREW IT I'M AWESOME AND I'LL GET BETTER'. But I realise that it's difficult to get in the mindset xD

I wasn't meaning to diss him. It just felt like.. I didn't get something. xD

But. Yah. I guess that all makes sense. A lot of the time I am pretty much lacking in ideas, yet I wanna draw too..

'S why I'm so pumped for school, hah. With a specific purpose and stuff, I actually have them.

Thank you. That helps a lot, if only just for.. putting my mind to rest, I guess. o3o

... *shouldgoomg*

My inspiration is usually either in drawing for other people or in learning. Thus why I love school so much. xD All these art classes throw the two together and pretty much force me to have ideas constantly and execute them quickly.

Actually, the whole composition thing suddenly doesn't seem so huge at all with so many projects getting done. I feel like I could do better, but it's definitely a start.

For lips, you might try doing self-portraits or even just drawing your lips by themselves as practice. Seriously. Self-portraits are so helpful it's ridiculous. xD

'Course, drawing other people's lips can help too - it's just that sometimes they aren't very cooperative as models, hah. My friends always end up getting distracted and moving.

Some actual tips.. ahm. Biggest thing is that the lips affect the area around them a TON. Of course the whole image of perfection minimises 'em, but all the subtle shadow changes around a pair of lips can be pretty important. Especially the ones that relate to the nose too. Interaction of facial features is a great way to make all of them more convincing. c:

Night scenes usually revolve around cool, unsaturated colors like greyish blues/purples and just really dark or really pale colors. Things tend to look a little undetailed since detail gets lost in shadow. There's often some kind of sudden contrast too, in brightness, saturation, or warmth/coolness - whether it's from a full moon's glow or a warmly-lit window or a bunch of city lights..

Some night scenes from a couple movies come to mind - namely Bambi and the Iron Giant. Bambi's show natural lighting and the whole moonlight thing really nicely, while the Iron Giant's first night scene kind of follows its overall theme through contrast. What we know, or what's in the flashlight's beam, is saturated and colorful, while everything else is unsaturated, unfamiliar, and just kinda frightening.

Sadly, I can only provide screenshots from the Bambi scenes I'm talking about, since I don't have the Iron Giant on anything I can play on my computer. xD

But yah. [link], [link], [link].

I guess, being so color-based, this is just one of those things where it can be pretty good to study what others have done. Movies and paintings and whatnot.

dA and music is not enough. Try and broaden your perspective when it comes to art. Get out, don't just sit there in front of your computer and oogle at art students and hobbyists (though I know that a lot of professionals use dA, but really; think about the ratio of pros against students and hobbyists), but rather looks at the 'masters' of art, people that have changed the world's perspective on art. I'm not just talking about Da Vinci or Picasso. There are plenty of great artists that you've probably never heard of that have changed the public's opinion on art: Duchamp, Lichtenstein, Emin, Hirst etc.

Look at contemporaries that aren't that famous but still have interesting views on art. Also try studying artists you HATE like the Chapman Brothers (if you don't know who they are, you will probably hate them. Just so you know) and such. Try (key word here: TRY) to understand the world of the Saatchis and why everything so horrid and disgusting appeals them. Also, don't just look at 'art'. Look at other things, construction, packaging design, furniture, natural forms. You get awesome as people like Zaha Hadid that don't practice in 'art' but more commercial things. Look at writers (for example Leo Tolstoy), many of them are art appreciators and present interesting views without even being a practictioner.

Well, if you say that you aren't  interested in fine art, architecture or any of the things I've mentioned, you may ask: what is the point in studying it? To answer that, I will introduce you to one of my many mottos: 'you must open your mind before you close it again'. Just try it, you may actually love it. You may think you know yourself, but you actually don't. You can only understand yourself more, but you will never completely understand yourself.

So, if you didn't know a few names (or even all of the names) I have mentioned, study a bit of art history please. You can't call yourself an artist if you don't know at least a bit of history. Also, don't just study it and toss it in the corner. Use that knowledge and let it inspire you.

 oh yeah, I forgot. Also try and learn about some art movements (fondly called 'isms'). I think it's nice to know that no matter how much you'd like to think you can, you will never be unique. 

...It's something you have to get to grips to. Even if you did something unique, someone's gonna copy you or conicidentally get the same idea. There's nearly 7 billion people on this planet. What do you expect? xD

I have to say, I've never been into an art class, ever. At least not one where I get to learn technical stuff. Right now, I'm doing a subject in IB that allows us to create our own art and sbumit it to be marked by an examiner. The teacher doesn't teach us, but she is only supposed to guide us. So I'm basically self taught xD

I think it's okay... teaching myself. At least my technique's unique(in a bad way)? Can't draw lips? Screw it, just leave them out. Yurp... great innit? The night scene thing doesn't seem to be a problem with me. It seems that I can pick colours well at least. I'd love to painting or sculpting classes, I just seem to make up stuff as I go. When I make sculptures, the ears always fall off. Anyone know a way of solving that without using glue after the thing's baked (which is also what I always do)?

I also have problems when it comes to painting sculptures. It's a completely different territory from painting on canvas or photoshop. Just colouring things in the flat base colours isn't enough for me, it looks weird.