I've been watching this for a while and trying hard to remember exactly what was said in the conversation that spurred this on

(in the case of discrimination)

What I can remember (and please correct me if there was more that I missed, the Sb was moving very fast) is that a user posted something along the lines of

"I dont agree with homosexuality but I won't treat any one differently because of it" which was after some one else brought up the subject I think.

This is no diffrent to Graves mum and does not sound degrading, full of hate and discriminating to me. (just please... Forget about your race and gender exarmples here)

If they did come out with something horrid say "I don't agree with homosexuality and i will fish slap any one who is"

That would be wrong

it expresses more than an opinion and is disrespectful

Which is against the rules and staff probably would have stepped it.

I saw several people who were expressing discomfort towards the end of that conversation and although it was just one users remark that "pushed it past tipping point" i think they had been uncomfortable for a while.

In fourms (where you were asked to take it) it could have continued, them users didn't have to see it yadada~ 

I understand why you want this addition to the rules and of course any discrimination is wrong and should be delt with asap (discrimination of any kind) but I dont think its needed.

once again, (trying to make things clear fail) if I completely overlooked or missed the point please set me on the right path

;-;

And I really respect you guys (14bm too!) for standing your ground and fighting for what you think is right!

 edit: and uhm well I might as well call my self bi-sexual, I dont useually lable my self a sexual orintation but that will do for this last (just in case) statement: just I case you were going to imply that I didn't understand the weight behind "I dont agree with homosexuality...." well I do as long as it isn't expressed in a derogatory, mean way ( like my exarmple... Althought it would take more that the threat of a fish slap to really get to me xD)

Before I delve into this, I want to say I have taken the time to read everything that has occurred here and the chat.

Since you insist on direct responses as well as proof/facts, I have taken the time to cut out irrelevant conversation of the chat logs before my response post. I hope that anyone involved is not bothered by this posting and understands it is purely to provide proof about the details of this issue. If there is something said on there that you would like removed, please let me know and I'll gladly censor it if it's not concerning the exact issue.

LuckyArtist (2013-06-20 01:24:48 pm): Some people are so stupid. I ahte how close-minded some people are

Dustfeather (2013-06-20 01:25:12 pm): Got to agree with you there Lucky uwu;

cherrysummer8 (2013-06-20 01:25:27 pm):I think ignorant is a better word ;w;

OmenaApple (2013-06-20 01:25:32 pm):Sort of irony in your post Lucky.

LuckyArtist (2013-06-20 01:26:01 pm):Omena, yes. I can see that

LuckyArtist (2013-06-20 01:26:04 pm):At least

Dustfeather (2013-06-20 01:26:13 pm):Stupid = not the right term. Close-minded = often xD

LuckyArtist (2013-06-20 01:26:14 pm):I accept people for who there

Dustfeather (2013-06-20 01:26:24 pm):Though sometimes they're just ignorant, like Cheri said c':

LuckyArtist (2013-06-20 01:27:21 pm):I just hate it when there is an article about a fun gay couple and suddenly all the biggots on yahoo suddenly rise up and storm to the article and just rag on everything having to do with homosexuality. It makes me sad

14brokenmirrors (2013-06-20 01:27:59 pm):It is also close-minded to think that everyone who disagrees with homosexuality is a bigot

OmenaApple (2013-06-20 01:28:10 pm):I strongly second you on that Lucky, though. o3o

LuckyArtist (2013-06-20 01:28:37 pm):I don't think that people who disagree with homosexulaity are biggots. I think the ones that won't listen to any arguments and are mean to everybody are bigots

Dustfeather (2013-06-20 01:28:56 pm):so not really Broken. That's literally the definition of a bigot :U

Dustfeather (2013-06-20 01:29:04 pm):Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats other people with hatred, contempt, and intolerance on the basis of a person's ethnicity, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation etc"

LuckyArtist (2013-06-20 01:29:09 pm):My best friend doesn't agree with it, but at least she doesn't tell me I'm sinning or something

14brokenmirrors (2013-06-20 01:29:24 pm):the ones that are mean about it yeah I can understand that. but just because someone does not agree with it does not automatically make them a bigot

Dustfeather (2013-06-20 01:29:24 pm):Ripped right from Wikipedia.

14brokenmirrors (2013-06-20 01:29:36 pm):Wikipedia isn't above the Bible :p

Dustfeather (2013-06-20 01:29:40 pm):What is "not agreeing" with it exactly?

Ylvalaric (2013-06-20 01:29:49 pm):hmm... but wouldnt taggin someone who doesnt agree on homosexuality as close minded.. be in some cases a close minded judgment?

14brokenmirrors (2013-06-20 01:30:00 pm):Believing what the Bible teaches about it could be considered disagreeing

Ylvalaric (2013-06-20 01:30:02 pm):just like ppl differ from opinin in diff stuff

OmenaApple (2013-06-20 01:30:07 pm):Why cant people just.

Ylvalaric (2013-06-20 01:30:11 pm):not only homosexuality

OmenaApple (2013-06-20 01:30:12 pm):Be with who they want and be done with it. :I

Dustfeather (2013-06-20 01:30:16 pm):Well the Bible sure as hell isn't above Wikipedia. :U

OmenaApple (2013-06-20 01:30:18 pm):Not to have wars with each other about it.

Lunchboxbaby (2013-06-20 01:30:23 pm):I don't believe the Bible is bigger than anything, but that is my own opinion, so yeah.

Dustfeather (2013-06-20 01:30:25 pm):Homosexuality isn't an action dude. It's a sexual orientation.

Ylvalaric (2013-06-20 01:30:27 pm):they have their opinion and some of them will not change no matter what you do :P

LuckyArtist (2013-06-20 01:30:33 pm):Well, my best friend is mormon and she believes that marriage is between a man and a woman. Fine, believe what you want, but don't push your beliefs on me. She doesn't try to do that like so many other people

OmenaApple (2013-06-20 01:30:34 pm):I cant understand, man. Too complicated. humans. //aliens-meme

14brokenmirrors (2013-06-20 01:30:34 pm):People from both sides are entitled to express their beliefs. Not in a hateful way of course, but it is unfair to expect silence because you don't like it

Dustfeather (2013-06-20 01:30:35 pm):You can't disagree with Asian.

Ylvalaric (2013-06-20 01:30:46 pm):ofc not in a hateful way :3

Florence (2013-06-20 01:30:57 pm):Well uh...I don't know what we're really discussing so imma go egg hunting.

Backstabber (2013-06-20 01:31:02 pm):Would you treat me differently that im dating a girl and im a girl?

Ylvalaric (2013-06-20 01:31:05 pm):i mean i dont agree with homosexuality, but i dont treat homosexual ppl bad

LuckyArtist (2013-06-20 01:31:11 pm):Back, nope

14brokenmirrors (2013-06-20 01:31:19 pm):absolutely not Backstabber

Ylvalaric (2013-06-20 01:31:20 pm):and i think gay marriage should be approved because of the benefits they can adquire as citizens

Backstabber (2013-06-20 01:31:27 pm):Thanks Lucky

Rodriguez78 (2013-06-20 01:31:32 pm):nope

OmenaApple (2013-06-20 01:31:45 pm):Back; Probably not, yet unconsciously I'd be proud of you doing what you like and not letting other people's opinions make you do otherwise. :3

LuckyArtist (2013-06-20 01:31:56 pm):Yl. My church is for gay marriage. We even have two gay couples and 1 lesbian couple at our church :D

Dustfeather (2013-06-20 01:31:59 pm):Guys. It's not possible to "disagree" with someone's state of being. That's as ridiculous as saying "I disagree with black" or "I disagree with Asian"

Backstabber (2013-06-20 01:32:03 pm):Omena :)) Thanks

Outsane (2013-06-20 01:32:10 pm):I would avoid trying to hook you up with a dude, if that's considered treating you differently. :U

Dustfeather (2013-06-20 01:32:11 pm):

You can be AGAINST it or not.

Reiu (2013-06-20 01:32:14 pm):Ylvaric, I'm partially against gaypeople adopting children, because of what those children might go through due to it.

Witch (2013-06-20 01:32:14 pm):I'm a lesbian. My girlfriend is bisexual. I don't think I should be treated any differently just because I'm attracted to women instead of men.

Florence (2013-06-20 01:32:14 pm):Hrrng I'm too lazy to search for eggs.

14brokenmirrors (2013-06-20 01:32:20 pm):but Dust, having sex is not a state of being. it's an act

14brokenmirrors (2013-06-20 01:32:25 pm):something you do

Rodriguez78 (2013-06-20 01:32:27 pm):not dustfeather

Reiu (2013-06-20 01:32:27 pm):*gay people

Backstabber (2013-06-20 01:32:32 pm):Witch i soo agree

LuckyArtist (2013-06-20 01:32:34 pm):Dust, some people are racist, but it isn't a belief to be agreed or disagreed with, you're right

Graveyardfox (2013-06-20 01:32:38 pm):I've never had sex with a guy or a woman. Don't plan on it either. But I'm gay.

LuckyArtist (2013-06-20 01:32:45 pm):Yes, but gay marriage is not about sex

OmenaApple (2013-06-20 01:32:49 pm):..I like the SB when it has serious conversations :3 Insightful.

Dustfeather (2013-06-20 01:32:49 pm):That's sex then Broken.

Dustfeather (2013-06-20 01:32:54 pm):Sex is sex no matter what gender you are.

Dustfeather (2013-06-20 01:33:03 pm):It's not "sex" for straight people and "homosexuality" for gay ones

Rodriguez78 (2013-06-20 01:33:05 pm):i had sex with a girl

LuckyArtist (2013-06-20 01:33:14 pm):Also, it should't matter what two consenting adults do behind closed doors

Florence (2013-06-20 01:33:16 pm):Uhhh okay this just went awkward to super awkward.

LuckyArtist (2013-06-20 01:33:26 pm):Flor, lol

14brokenmirrors (2013-06-20 01:33:29 pm):okay it might be time to move along then =)

OmenaApple (2013-06-20 01:33:31 pm):LOL Flo.

Reiu (2013-06-20 01:33:32 pm):You said it.

Ylvalaric (2013-06-20 01:33:35 pm):we dont wanna know if you had sex, staright or gay >.>

maclew13 (2013-06-20 01:33:37 pm):agreed flo

Kyler (2013-06-20 01:33:45 pm):no its not lol it's an act if bonding a passion of love

Dustfeather (2013-06-20 01:33:46 pm):I don't think so Broken, none of us in here are getting vicious. It's not against the rules either.

14brokenmirrors (2013-06-20 01:33:46 pm):amen to that Yiva

ShadowScene (2013-06-20 01:33:58 pm):So... how's the weather been, you guys? :3

Dustfeather (2013-06-20 01:34:01 pm):Well talking about what you did with someone else is a little yeah but

Graveyardfox (2013-06-20 01:34:11 pm):Ylv: It's a statement of fact. I'm a homosexual but according to being against "homosexuality" and talking about sex, being gay doesn't mean you have sex.

14brokenmirrors (2013-06-20 01:34:14 pm):Dust it does not have to become violent to be time to drop it

Graveyardfox (2013-06-20 01:34:11 pm):Ylv: It's a statement of fact. I'm a homosexual but according to being against "homosexuality" and talking about sex, being gay doesn't mean you have sex.

14brokenmirrors (2013-06-20 01:34:14 pm):Dust it does not have to become violent to be time to drop it

Dustfeather (2013-06-20 01:34:22 pm):But I'd rather not have to "move on" from this "touchy" topic of homosexuality for the third time in a month. ^^

14brokenmirrors (2013-06-20 01:34:26 pm):Users have expressed discomfort, so let's not continue this here

14brokenmirrors (2013-06-20 01:34:32 pm):You can continue in off-topic if you like

Dustfeather (2013-06-20 01:34:46 pm):They were expressing discomfort about what a user flat-out said about their sex life.

Rodriguez78 (2013-06-20 01:34:46 pm):im straight

Outsane (2013-06-20 01:34:56 pm):Let's bring back THE DEBATES FORUM LOL

maclew13 (2013-06-20 01:34:57 pm):I think broken is more worried that it may get inappropriate uncomfortable (

LuckyArtist (2013-06-20 01:35:02 pm):Dust, ya

14brokenmirrors (2013-06-20 01:35:09 pm):Final word: you may continue in off topic if you like

LuckyArtist (2013-06-20 01:35:14 pm):That's what they were expressing discomfort about XD

I am going to interject as I am a neutral party; both as a participant and about the topic of homosexuality. There is a lot that has already been said here and I am not going to have the time or patience to reply to every little detail. I will try the best I can to lay out what I see on both sides.

I have read the chat history more than once and I have seen this thread take life. Not once has homosexuality or homosexuals been brought down or treated as if they were wrong. As stated before, the conversation in the sb was mature and insightful. More than one person had expressed their discomfort of the topic outside of the sb. Broken has gone out of her way several times to solve your problem and as I read I only see you responding statements cut out of context to continue your point. You are assuming yourself as the discriminated party when there is no discrimination to begin with. I think you know very well that when someone has said they "disagree," they usually really mean they are tolerant but believe something else. Simply correcting the terminology politely would be the best solution to this perceived offensive statement.

During the conversation in the sb Broken was expressing that very point because she herself has views about this. All was civil in the conversation but I felt that I needed to say this because your impression of the lines of personal ex
pression and duties as a staff member are blurred. Even if Broken disagreed with the rules, she is still required to enforce them. If any staff member (or enough players) had an issue with the rules, they would undoubtedly have to be reconsidered. What we decide to do with those rules have to be up to us. As said, rules are never perfect.

In our day and age, the topic of homosexuality is becoming more and more accepted. Most of us understand it is not a choice. That any person can not simply decide what gender(s) they chose to love. Some may think otherwise; No one can change this.

Your examples of racism and women's rights are misplaced as these issues will always be progressive. Even though they are in many ways the same as sexuality. Not even a century ago, it was ridiculous to think that a woman could have equal rights to men. In that day and age bringing up the topic would have given the same debated response as homosexuality does now. Yet, if someone were to talk about equality in race or sexuality you likely would have been in a much more dangerous predicament due to the controversial nature of the subject. Time and oppression by society is a huge factor. The idea of homosexuality as a basic human right is currently a controversial topic as it progresses to be more widely accepted. Just like many other current topics. 

This does NOT mean I'm stating that sexual orientation isn't a basic human right.

Rescreatu is not a political or social statement for interest groups. We are all diverse. It is important to us that we maintain an enjoyable environment for every player who is obeying the rules. If someone is being discriminatory they will not be tolerated. End of story. We accept people from every corner of the world no matter what they believe. Discrimination will always exist and rear its ugly head. It can only be dealt with as it comes. As a staff we must allow open-mindedness and be neutral when it comes to handling current controversial topics (that doesn't mean they are not allowed to agree or disagree). 

This is especially the case when it comes to the shoutbox, since it is a permanent and instant presence on the site. Repeating what Broken has already said, these topics are more than welcome to continue to be debated on the forums. 

Your persistence to argue with Broken over small details tells me that you are not interested in discussing the topic but discussing it specifically in the shoutbox. We are not here to spend our time babysitting all debates in the sb in order to cut it off the MOMENT it becomes an aggressive or uncomfortable situation. Broken received more than one complaint outside of the sb during and made the right call to politely request that everyone continue the debate on the forums where it wouldn't ruin the socialization of the shoutbox.

I understand that it may have seemed an unfair call, but when a staff member decides it is time to move on, respect their message. They are doing it out of the interest of the site and everyone who plays.  If you have an issue with a particular decision, either send in a ticket or contact a staff member you trust to pass it to the right person.

In hindsight, we have been planning to reevaluate our rules and guidelines. The issue of flaws in the rules or lack of have not gone unnoticed.

There will be no further discussion on this thread.